Received: from mp.cs.niu.edu (mp.cs.niu.edu [18.104.22.168]) by library.wustl.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA11424; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 12:41:55 -0500 (CDT) Received: by mp.cs.niu.edu id AA22094 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for nepal-dist); Sun, 16 Aug 1998 11:11:17 -0500 Received: by mp.cs.niu.edu id AA22090 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for nepal-list); Sun, 16 Aug 1998 11:11:16 -0500 Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 11:11:16 -0500 Message-Id: <199808161611.AA22090@mp.cs.niu.edu> Reply-To: The Nepal Digest <NEPAL@cs.niu.edu> From: The Editor <email@example.com> Sender: "Rajpal J.P. Singh" <A10RJS1@cs.niu.edu> Subject: The Nepal Digest - August 18, 1998 (23 Shrawan 2055 BkSm) To: <NEPAL@cs.niu.edu> Content-Type: text Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 281
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The Nepal Digest Tue Aug 18, 1998: Shrawan 23 2055BS: Year7 Volume77 Issue8
Today's Topics (partial list):
From The Editor's Desk
BIG ERROR IN LIFE
Social Impact of Tourism in Nepal
Re: Hindi/Nepali and the concept of Nepalihood
Re: Make sense
Antiracist.com and Meow Nepal
Re: Hindi/Nepali, Madhesi/Pahadi
Racism: From the Nepalese to the Global Context(I)
* TND (The Nepal Digest) Editorial Board *
* -------------------------------------- *
* The Nepal Digest: General Information firstname.lastname@example.org *
* Chief Editor: Rajpal JP Singh email@example.com *
* (Open Position) *
* Editorial Columnist: Pramod K. Mishra firstname.lastname@example.org *
* Sports Correspondent: Avinaya Rana email@example.com *
* Co-ordinating Director - Australia Chapter (TND Foundation) *
* Dr. Krishna B. Hamal HamalK@dist.gov.au *
* Co-ordinating Director - Canada Chapter (TND Foundation) *
* Anil Shrestha SHRESTHA@CROP.UOGUELPH.CA *
* SCN Correspondent: Open Position *
* TND Archives: http://library.wustl.edu/~listmgr/tnd/ *
* TND Foundation: http://www.nepal.org firstname.lastname@example.org *
* WebSlingers: Pradeep Bista,Naresh Kattel,Robin Rajbhandari *
* Rabi Tripathi, Prakash Bista email@example.com *
* +++++ Food For Thought +++++ *
* "Heros are the ones who give a bit of themselves to the community" *
* "Democracy perishes among the silent crowd" -Sirdar_Khalifa *
Date: August 14, 1998
From: The Editor's Desk
To: The Nepal Digest <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Subject: Mediation and The Free Press
Much has been said about "Nepal/India" lately. Perhaps much more than
one would want to digest as some of our readers have noted, and to
acknowledge, understandibly so.
We hope that, as thoughtful individuals, not only we celebrate the
CONCEPT of "free press", but solemnly swear to uphold and practice the
REALITY of "responsible free press". After all, amongst adults, its all
about "productive responsibilty", its all about being able to "face the
consequences", isn't it?
As much as editors HATE to intervene, and in many situation s/he
DARE NOT :), by the request of the larger audiences and readers, s/he
may have to. Is this that time of RARE occasion? I ask and seek your
If you, the readers feel that we ought to terminate the "India/Nepal"
stuff, be it so, after all its your forum and you are the judge
and the jury.
The Nepal Digest
(TND Foundation http://www.nepal.org)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 17:18:55 +1200 (NZST)
To: The Nepal Digest <NEPAL@cs.niu.edu>
From: giri raj kattel <email@example.com>
Subject:Stop it, TND!
Recently, I have found that TND is losing its quality drastically. The
main reason is, publishing unhealthy and destructive issues to our
nationality. I have a request that if any one who raises the issues like
"Nepal should be under India" again, should be deleted from the TND mailing list. Otherwise, I will no longer be a reader of TND.
Giri Raj Kattel
University of Otago
Dunedin, New Zealand
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 07:04:01 -0400
To: The Nepal Digest <NEPAL@cs.niu.edu>
>Subject: 10 REASONS WHY INDIA SHOULD JOIN NEPAL
I applaud the work of the writer who presented ten reasons that India
should join Nepal. Frankly, I think that China should join Nepal, too.
>Subject: looking for songwriter for music album
Why not track down popular Nepali poet/singer/songwriter Manjul? He has some great songs, very popular, and they're not all about romance, etc--he has a particularly nice song about Bhojpur. He was living in Sanepa last I heard. Or, maybe he could be contacted through the Campus of International Languages at Tribhuvan--are they on email?
If you do get through, let me know. I'd like to get in touch with him, too.
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 16:55:39 EDT
Subject: No Subject
Friendly gathering Nepalese and friends potluck in August 98
Performance also in Seattle Wa
Contact Fifi Embick - firstname.lastname@example.org further info.
Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 11:26:57 -0500
From: Damber Gurung <DGurung@shopko.com>
Subject: "BIG ERROR IN LIFE"
The Recent Edition of LIFE MAGAZINE which has very interesting articles about existing KINGS throughout the world. Naturally, Nepali people all over the world will be interested to see how Nepal's King (Birendra) and his story is presented in it.
It is dissapointing indeed that on page 71, there is a picture with title "King Birendra in 1990..." but I could not recognize him there. Have I forgotten his face? No, No, No,... It is an errrrrrorrrr, I am sure.
It is not my picture either. Please make a note of it.
Damber K. Gurung, Ph.D.
Fairfax, Virginia, USA
From: "Santha Fernandez" <email@example.com>
Subject: Social Impact of Tourism in Nepal
I am an Australian undergraduate student currently involved in a
research study on the above topic. I came across an article "Himalayas
labelled 'The Highest Junkyard in the World'" by Pravigya Regmi in which
the author gave 'The Nepal Digest' due credit. Is it possible for me to
have a copy of the original article so that I too may cite and reference
it in my paper? I would also appreciate any help/link to
materials/articles that may further help me with the study.
Finally the book 'The Tourist Image: Myths and Myth Making in Tourism'
by Tom Selwyn (Ed.)cites (pp 54-55) excerpts from the poem of a Nepali
poet, Ratnadev Sharma entitled 'I too am a remarkable man'. This poem
apparently was published in the Kathmandu literary monthly 'Madhupark'
in 1971. I would appreciate all the help you can give me to get a hold
of the entire poem as I hope to make it the central theme of my
presentation on the above topic.
I thank you in anticipation of all your help in this matter.
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 20:47:49 +0530
From: "F. A. H. ('Hutch') Dalrymple" <firstname.lastname@example.org>
To: editor Contributions <email@example.com>
Subject: Martin Chautari meeting, August 11, '98
Please pass on the following poem to the gentleman 'presenter,' at last
night's meeting at Martin Chautari...
Tell him, I'm the 'Hutch,' that asked him who the Department Head of
Journalism at Tribhuvan University is... (besides the location of Martin
Chautari, the best kept secret in Kathmandu.) After trying to find out
for a month, I still don't know... But, after two hours of searching I
found 'Martin' baby!
Pralyoush Onta and/or TKP 'circulation' (the word used 21 times in
I sat through a 'do,'
@Martin Chautari. Who? And didn't understand 'a word' Circulation ko; Oh, oh!
'The ultimate objective of the
Is not to get to the truth,
But, to hide it!'
'Just like religion Keeps you
>From experiencing God!'
And so hidden,
My bike ridden
All the way
In the monsoon,
The day after a full moon
Soaking, I sang a tune!
I have a feeling, though...
Got what they were supposed to...
And 'do, re, mi.'
Pressed into three!
>From the same,
A journalistic name And muy importante!
Time to move to the hills,
Let those have 'it,'
Who 'have two' believe it.
I did the same
When I didn't 'no' the game,
But, now I 'due!'
And, thus I have hope 'to.'
The 'problem' with lapen
Is the 'nappin,'
The crop slow to break through!
But, maybe the ground 'two' hard
For such 'rue?'
Journalism, sprouting the 'seeds' of history!
F.A.H. ('Hutch') Dalrymple
Swayambhuwho, Kathmandu, Nepal
From: "Mark D. Meyer" <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Subject: Fw: HELP all women were raped during the May riots in Jakarta
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 15:26:00 -0500
a little tidbit of info I thought I might share with you. definitely a
reason for thought.
> FORWARDED FROM MISSIONNET'S URGENT PRAYER NETWORK
> 21 June, 1998. Jakarta, Indonesia
> Dear friends,
> Here I submit a victim's account of being raped during the
> May riots here in Jakarta. Reference to Huaran Bulletin
> Board June 12, 1998.
> The purpose is to request your prayers for hundreds of
> similar victims.
> "My name is Vivian, and I am 18 years old. I have a little
> sister and brother. As a family we live in what is supposed
> to be a "secure" apartment.
> At 9.15 am, May 14th, 1998 a huge crowd had gathered around
> our apartment. They screamed, "Let's butcher the Chinese!",
> "Let's eat pigs!", "Let's have a party!" We live of the 7th
> floor and we got a call from a family on the 3rd floor
> saying that the crowd had reached the 2nd floor. They even
> chased some occupants upstairs. We were all very frightened.
> In our fright we prayed and left everything in God's hands.
> Afterward we left our room and went upstairs to the top
> floor, as it was impossible to go downstairs and escape. We
> got to the 15th floor and stayed with some friends. Not long
> afterwards we were surprised because some of the crowd
> coming out of the elevators right before we entered the
> room. We hurried into the room and locked the door tightly.
> At that time we heard them knock at the other rooms loudly
> and there were some screams from women and girls. Our room
> was filled with fear.
> We realized that they would come to us. So we spread
> throughout the room hiding in the corners.We could hear
> girls of 10 to 12 years old screaming, "Mommy,
> ..mommy...mom...mom...it hurts" That time I didn't know
> that these little girls were being raped. After about half
> an hour the noise diminished and we had some guts to go out
> and check. It was indescribable. A lot, some of them youg
> girls, were lying on the floor. "Oh my God, what has
> happened?" Seeing all of this we screemed and my little
> sister Fenny, screamed histerically and hugged her father.
> Uncle Dodi kept trying to stop them by offering money. His
> efforts were fruitless. And in the end 5 people raped Fenny.
> Before beginning with the raping they always said "Allahu
> Akbar" (an islamic phrase in arabic meaning "God is great".
> They were ferocius and brutal.
> Not long afterward, around 9 men came to the room and
> dragged me. I also saw them forcing and dragging my Aunt
> Vera. But at that time I passed out and everything went
> blank. I became conscious at around 5 or 6 pm. My head
> hurted and I realized I had no clothing on my body. I cried
> and realized my family was still there. My father was
> hugging my mother and little bother Doni. I also saw uncle
> Dodi lying on the floor and Aunt Vera was crying over his
> body. I felt so weak and fainted again.
> The next day I was in the Pluit hospital. My father and
> mother were beside me. With all the pains on my body I
> asked, "Mom, why Fenny. Mom?" I felt a stinging pain as I
> said these words. My cheeks were swollen. My mother cried
> again and couldn't speak any words, while my father, holding
> back his tears, managed to smile at me. After 4 days in
> treatment, my condition has improved. With a sad look, my
> father told me then what had happened. After I fainted 7
> people raped me. At that time my father still couldn't see
> well after beling hit with a piece of wood. They raped me
> repeatedly. Then my father said "Vivian, Fenny is gone..."
> I was confused and cried out, "Why Dad?" My father couldn't
> answer. He told me to rest and went out of the room. I cried
> over and over again, feeling that my life had no meaning any
> more. A week ago, after I was released from the hospital I
> was told everything that had happend.
> When Fenny was raped she kept on fighting and so she was
> repeatedly slapped by her rapists. The last time she fought
> Fenny spitted on one of them. Offended, the man grabbed a
> knife and stabbed Fenny's stomach over and over again.
> Finally she died with blood over her whole body.
> My father told me that uncle Dodi had the same fate watched
> by aunt Vera who was also raped. "God...why should all of
> this happen? Where are you God? Are you still alive?" My
> aunt Vera now stays with her parents. She is in shock. Her
> face is blank and refuses to eat. Almost every hour my
> mother and I cry over all these happenings. I can never
> forget. These mobs of people are uncivilized monsters."
> Additional comments from Bill Hekman:
> This is one of many victims. Hundreds of women and children
> were raped, mutilated and killed by muslim mobs. Some had
> their vaginas ripped apart, their bodies cut into pieces.
> Over 5000 of the Chinese Indonesian's shops were looted and
> burned down. A few days ago anther 63 shops were burned in
> Tegal, Central Java. The city of Solo is burned down. There
> is no protection and no justice in this country any more.
> Yesterday I was in the Kelapa Gading area and that area was
> spared from destruction. The police and military had guarded
> all the entry roads. The people there had collected large
> sums of money from door to door and paid for their protection.
> A similar situation took place in the Pondok Indah area.For the people
> who cannot pay millions to the armed forces there is no protection. Right
> the hunderds of thousands of thugs,robbers, rapist, and killers live
> all around us. They are our neighbors. There is no punishment for the
> criminals and no justice for the victims. Yet, all Indonesians call
> believers in God almighty. What a hipocracy. Shouting "God is great" when
> raping women andchildren is a blasphemy against a Holy God.
> Pray that God will annoint His preachers and missionaries
> throughout this nation with the power of the Holy Spirit to
> preach the message of repentance. God's word in 2 Chronicles
> 7:14 needs to be proclaimed boldly. There is no room for
> preachers filled with fear who think of evacuation and other
> selfish plans. Pray for Revival in all our churches.
> There is no room for preachers filled with fear who thinkof
> evacuation and other selfish plans.
> Some Christians are putting signs on their shops "Owned by
> Muslim". May God forgive them. Healing of this nation filled
> with crime and unjustice is bringing God's judgement and
> punishment. Healing and Salvation can only come with a
> nasional repentance at all levels in the government, armed
> forces and society. Then we need to share the Gospel of the
> Lord Jesus Christ. Christ is the One and Only Savior. No one
> will ever receive forgiveness and see heaven except through
> God's appointed Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ. Thank you for
> standing with us now. God bless you.
> chaos in Indonesia last May 13-15. Many Chinese Indonesian
> citizens were abused, tortured and killed. Their houses and stores
> looted and burnt. Hundreds of Chinese Indonesian
> girls/women (aged 10-55) were sexually harassed and gang raped
> Some victims were even raped in front of their family members or in
> of inhuman cheering crowd.
> Some of them were even thrown into the fire and burnt to death after
> raped. Yet, not many actions seem to have been taken to investigate
> this or to help the victims. And not very many people seem to know or
> about what happened. Please help to spread the news and let the world
> We need help to get more international attention to help Chinese
> Indonesians, who are now living in fear in Indonesia. Please pass this
> ribbon around as the symbol of campaign against human rights
> violations, injustice, and racism towards Chinese Indonesians.
> Show that we care and may God help us!
From: "Bhandari, Prakash - Broomfield, CO" <Prakash.Bhandari@cexp.com>
To: "'NEPAL@MP.CS.NIU.EDU'" <NEPAL@cs.niu.edu>
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 19:13:40 -0600
>P. Bhagat writes:
>(1) Lead the Nepalese economy towards rapid economic growth,
>(2) Reach out to those living below the poverty line with the fruits of
> the economic growth thus attained, ......................
"I agree with all of these points. "
>The Sadbhana has to go national. That is my point. It is no true the
>wants the Terai to be part of India. Cure yourself of your
"If Sadhbhavana honestly struggles for the betterment of the quality of
life of ALL Nepali Dalits, I will support it with all of my heart.
Therein, lies the bulk of Nepal's problem. Once we can get the poorest
Nepalis out of the fringes of Nepali society, to the mainstream, then
only we will succeed as a Nation. However, Sadbhabana hasn't done a
good job in separating itself from being more for India than for Nepal.
Supporting India in Tanakpur controversy was one instance where
Sadbhavana proved itself to be more pro-india than pro-nepal."
>(Compare the looks of people like yourselves and the Indians in
>is you who "are the same people, who happened to live in two
Man, you are really paranoid. I was trying to be sympathetic with your
view point. Sure me and 'Indians' in Darjeeling are the same people
living in two countries. To tell you the truth, I look more like you
Than the Indians in Darjeeling. However, they are still foreigners.
They may still speak Nepali, but they Are still foreigners.
I think you are too absorbed in this subject about racism to talk
objectively. You are fantasizing about this whole Negro thing. Look,
you even invented the terminology. You get credit for the creativity as
far as I am concerned. That (racism) comparison is invalid because lot
of Nepalis who speak Nepali are of Indo-European origin.
Mongloid-Nepalis don't control the government machinery of Nepal,
Indo-European Nepalis do. Actually, you are the same race as me as lot
of Nepali speaking Nepalis. So, there is not even a question of racism.
If anyone should raise a question of racism, then the Mongloid-Nepalis
I am beginning to think that you think everyone who disagrees with your
view point is a racist. There is nothing wrong with stopping the influx
of foreigners into your country. Why can't we make the law so that
they can visit but they can't live and work. What's wrong with that?
That can still be done while keeping the cultural ties intact. I still
think the Nepal-India border should be better regulated. May be it
shouldn't be closed (as in completely and fully closed - you all know
what I mean) however, there has to be a better mechanism in place.
Now, what is Nepal? And what is Nepali? Who is a Nepali ? As a
nation, we need to understand and may be broadly agree what these
questions mean to us. I feel that Sadhbhabana Party seems to be more
Pro-Indian than the Indians themselves. May be they are trying for us
to not distrust India too much (giving them benefit of doubt). (I
realize that you don't agree with Sadbhabana). However, they are not
doing a very good job in convincing the Nepali speaking populace about
that. This brings discomfort to most Nepalis (at least the Nepali
speaking ones). Actually, the cultural proximity of Teraiwaasis to
Indian peoples in Indian States of Bihar and UP could be the bridge to
India and Nepal in the future once we have a fuller sense of ourselves
as a country(Mr. Bhagat, I mean that in a good way).
Ethnic Politics has been one of the most tragic events of the '90s.
Bosnia, Rwanda, Congo and now Kosovo has consumed closed to a million
lives this decade. The only people who benifitted from those tragedies
were a selected few politicians. Nepal hopefully, will not go in that
direction. However, for that
There needs to be a common goal of 'All Nepalis', no matter what
language they speak, what they look like,
And which part of the country they come from. Whatever, is the best for
all Nepalis will be the best for Nepal too. Once we start thinking
about 'Greater Mithila ' or 'Greater Nepal' then we are inviting
Noone likes losing identity, not me, not you. That is the essence of
our being. Nepal should never be a one language, one culture country,
and I don't think will ever be. However, I believe, most of the Nepali
fear arises of possibility of being overwhelmed by the current influx
of Indians to Nepal. I feel that if we really want to address the issue
of Terai we also need to deal with that issue in conjunction with that.
Once we do that I think the problem becomes a whole lot simpler.
All things said and done, ultimately, the well being of all the people
should be the goal of a nation. Just like you said, prosperous South
Asia, where all the people can live in harmony and peace should be the
ultimate goal. May be later political borders won't mean anything.
Europe is close to that ideal. However, South Asian countries are way
behind and may annihilate themselves before they reach there. With
corrupt politics of the South Asian countries, and the pettyness,
paranoia, and compulsion to dominate everything of Indian policy makers,
that process hasn't even begun. At this stage, believe me, I am not
eager for that to happen. "
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 21:40:34 -0400
From: email@example.com (hilary dirlam)
Subject: Mr. Dalrymple
To the Editor;
I have been a little embarassed by the way Mr. Dalrymple has gone on and on about his "discvoveries" regarding Nepal and its citizens. I agree with your contributor who pointed out that his comments were just another way of the West purporting to know what's best for Nepal, based on a little misunderstood information . Of course, Mr. Dalrymple IS a Canadian, which may give his comments a little more credibility; I am a US citizen, and am living in the belly of the beast:-)
I am about to visit Nepal again; I have been in your country several times, and I love it. Sure there are problems. Visible air pollution, tainted water, child labor, subjugation of women, etc. etc.
I guess I am more familiar with the problems of my own country. Literate? Yes, if you consider a 4th-grade reading level (the national average) literate. Universal education? Sure- if you consider the 33% highschool dropout rate to be of no moment. Equality of women? But of course- if it's OK with you that women got the vote less than 100 years ago and still earn only 66 cents to every dollar that a man earns.Pollution? Look at the way cancer occurs in amazing concentrations around the sites of certain industries, for starters. But hey, you can't see it the way you can see diesel fumes.Caste system ? We are working on a dandy all-American one as generations upon generations of people of color are ghettoized on reservations and in our inner cities.Child labor? Take a peek into the sweatshops of Los Angeles and New York City and tell me everybody's over eighteen.
I know too much about my own country, and too little about Nepal, to cast the second stone! Hilary Dirlam
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 22:55:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ram Subedi <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Subject: Re: Hindi/Nepali and the concept of Nepalihood: The debate continues
> ## I'm now looking at a demographic map of Nepal prepared by the CIA. It
> has description of the selected ethnic groups of Nepal. It includes
> "Pahari" as a separate ethnic group of Nepal along with other Hilly ethnic
> groups -- Gurung, Tamange, Rai, Limbu, Sherpa, etc.
* The map you are seeing is somewhat misleading. Pahadi, Madhesi, and
Himali are the names identifying people in Nepal entirely on the basis of
their geographical origin. At least for Pahadi, I know it for sure. The
ethnic group the CIA report describes as "Pahadi" exists but not with that
name. As a matter of fact I am not sure what this group is labeled as in
the hills or whether it has a name. In the hills Pahadi would describe a
Magar just the same way it describes a Chhetri.
> I reiterate that there is only one major ethinc group in Nepaltht posseses
> all seven characteristics and that is the "Pahari" group.
* Even if one were to accept your idea of "Pahadi" ethnic group, your
characterization of this group lacks factual basis. In such case, traits
number 1 and 7 cannot be attributed with the simplicity you observe. As
for trait number 2, the situation gets complicated when a Nepali speaking
person in the far west says, "Batami gad padanchha," while the standard
Nepali would be "Batoma khola bhetinchha."
> mutually accepted sets of values." However, the cultural assimilation will
> certainly prevent the matters from turning bad to worse while at the same
> time help prmote the national unity. The mainstream culture formed after
> proper cultural assimilation include the major characteristics of all the
> major groups.
* The way I understand assimilation is that in this process the
assimilated fail to secure a proportionate footing in the resulting social
configuration and to preserve their cultural identity. If you mean
blending of cultures in a way to achieve national sense of identity, that
is a wishful thinking. Forging a common underground without disrupting the
distict cultural identities would be the feasible way to go.
Department of Physics
MC 3638 Middlebury College
Middlebury, VT 05753.
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 23:21:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: Bijay Raut 99 <email@example.com>
Subject: Re: Hindi/Nepali and the concept of Nepalihood: The debate continues
On Mon, 10 Aug 1998, Ram Subedi wrote:
> name. As a matter of fact I am not sure what this group is labeled as in
> the hills or whether it has a name. In the hills Pahadi would describe a
> Magar just the same way it describes a Chhetri.
## Once again by "Pahari" ethnic group I meant the Hindu-Parbatiya group
(Bahun, Chhetri, Thakuri, Damai,Sarki,etc.). Don't you think this special group is differnt from other groups of "Pahad," i.e., Magars, Gurungs, Rai, Limbu, Tamangs? The "Pahari", though share the same "Pahad", is distinct from other groups in terms of their share of power, religion, customs and values. Otherwise there would not have been outcry among other ethnic groups of Pahad which has taken a political shape of the "Janjati" movement. These Janjati groups try to distinguish themselves from the
"Pahari" or "Parbatiya" groups and often accuse them of encroaching their culture, religion as well as marginalizing their share of power.
> * The way I understand assimilation is that in this process the
> assimilated fail to secure a proportionate footing in the resulting social
> configuration and to preserve their cultural identity. If you mean
## From your above conception, would you please tell us how might it be
feasible in Nepal to develop a sense of "national unity" or "national
identity" that embraces all major communities (other than my proposal
of "adherence to the secular political ideals and mutually accepted
values)? I would be more than happy to know of any other way that might
breed the most coveted "national unity" and "national identity" in Nepal.
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 00:04:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ram Subedi <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Subject: Re: Hindi/Nepali and the concept of Nepalihood: The debate continues
I think I have made my point clear about "Pahadi" (in my sense) people.
Janajati issue includes people of "Pahadi" (in your sense) group too.
Racism, discrimination etc. are bad whereever they exist.
> ## From your above conception, would you please tell us how might it be
> feasible in Nepal to develop a sense of "national unity" or "national
> identity" that embraces all major communities (other than my proposal
> breed the most coveted "national unity" and "national identity" in Nepal.
** The starting point would be wipe out ignorance. It's not an easy
process and will take its time but the outcome would be conducive to our
goals. When most of the people in Nepal will be able to recognize each
other without the common stereotypes, the pieces will start falling
".....You could view these two states either as two countries in a union or two Indian states. In the *former* case the credibility of the federal government becomes less appealing when nukes come before bread in the national interest list, and in the *latter* case the meaning of accomodating fiscal policies gets distorted when the states themselves lack fiscal fitness...."
".....You could view these two states either as two countries in a union or two Indian states. In the *latter* case the credibility of the federal government becomes less appealing when nukes come before bread in the national interest list, and in the *former* case the meaning of accomodating fiscal policies gets distorted when the states themselves lack fiscal fitness...."
I am really sorry for this error on my part.
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 01:25:51 -0400
From: Diwas Khati <email@example.com>
Subject: On why Nepal should/not join India
The most important thing we are not seeing on addressing the Nepal India
annexation hypothesis is that Nepal will no longer exist as a sovereign
nation. Therefore questions about Nepali economy and beekash simply will
not have much significance on their own.
Does Sikkim enjoy its own rights to its future without being debated in
the Lok Sabha or Sansad? Sikkim is simply a terretorial issue within the
Indian nation. Similar will be the fate of Nepal and Nepalis.
The one advantage for the Nepalis I see in the anenxation to be treated
as Indians in the various platforms. Nepal will not be a victim of
brain-drain...it will be Indian problem. Advancement opportunities for
those who want to work hard for it will simply multiply...easier access
to state colleges/universities and research/study facilities within
But the biggest disadvantage will be the loss of sovereignty(sp?) for
Nepalis. Nepalis will be just another statistical classification in
India. And one more opportunity for Ayodhya kanda at the
Wouldn't you agree?
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 98 13:55:00 EST
From: "Paramendra Bhagat" <Paramendra_Bhagat@smtpgtwy.berea.edu>
Subject: The Indonesian Chinese and the Teraiwasis in Nepal
There are facts to all these that is waiting to be uncovered by the world.
To: All honorable members of the society
Dear Sir, and/or Mdm,
If you have watched TV, read newspapers, or turned on the
radio this past several days, you may heard of the riots in
Indonesia. News media are telling us the Indonesian Pribumis (Malay) people
are rising up against the Suharto dictatorship. We are told that the
Indonesia poor Malay suffered a lot under Suharto's corrupted regime,
and they wanted change.
The Indonesia Pribumis (Malay) comprises over 80% of the total
population. Most of them are Muslims. The Indonesian ethnic Chinese
minority are mostly Buddhist or Christian. The news media portrayed
the Indonesian Malay as honest, decent, peace loving people who
rioted because they were hungry, they were poor, and they were
victimized by Suharto, and his filthy-rich Indonesian Chinese allies.
Who is Suharto? Is Suharto an Indonesian Pribumi (Malay,) or is he an
Indonesian Chinese? Is Suharto a Muslim, or is he a Christian or a Buddhist?
Aren't you curious that almost all reports about the
Indonesian rioters savagely attacking businesses owned by the
Indonesian ethnic Chinese minority come with the DISCLAIMER-like
pseudo-economic news attachment that reminds us of the "disproportion wealth
gap" between the Chinese and the Malay in Indonesia?
A disclaimer-like news attachment usually looks like
this: "The Indonesian ethnic Chinese minority only comprises
less than 4% of the Indonesian population, but they controlled more than
(70%, 75%, 80%,85%,90%, take your pick) of the entire Indonesian economy."
Don't you find it strange the news media attach an ECONOMIC disclaimer
whenever they report the BLATANTLY RACIST RIOTS in Indonesia
perpetrated by people from the MAJORITY RACE against
people of the MINORITY RACE? Could it be possible that 4% of the population
controlling over 90% of the economy?
Suharto and his family are reported to have accumulated up to 40 BILLION USD in
wealth. Is Suharto and his family counted among the 4% of the
population? Is Suharto and his family ethnically CHINESE? Is the World Press
reporting from Indonesia consistent with their reporting from elsewhere around
the world? Here are several recent world events, as reported to us
by the sameInternational Media:
In Rwanda, when the MAJORITY Hutus attacked and massacre the minority
Tutsis, the World Press reported it as a racial-based tragedy. There was no
mention of the economic differences. In Bosnia, when the MAJORITY Serbs and/or
the Croats attacked and massacre the Bosnia Muslims, the International Media
told us it was religious-based. The conflicts between the Albanian and Serbs in
Kosovo are being reported as race-based conflicts. Why then, whenever the
Indonesian Malay MAJORITY savagely attacked the Indonesian Chinese minority, the
World Media kept on insisting that the attacks motivated by RACIST hatred were
Have you heard any single news story that portrayed the Indonesian
Malay as racists for their attack on Chinese owned businesses? Have you wonder
why the Indonesian Malay only attacked the Chinese shops, and not the Malay,
American, British, or Arabian businesses?
Are ALL Indonesian Chinese FILTHY-RICH? Of the Indonesian Chinese, only 5% can
be classified as wealthy. The rest -NINETY-FIVE PERCENT (95%) - of them are
either in the medium or lower-income strata of the Indonesian economy.
Today, many Indonesian ethnic Chinese are still living in wooden shacks because
they can NOT afford brick houses. Many of the poor Indonesian Chinese worked
very hard but they still find it extremely difficult to make enough money to
feed and house their family.
Most of the really wealthy Indonesian Chinese already LEFT Indonesia.
hose stayed behind in Indonesia are the poor Chinese who don't have
the economic means to escape. And they are those whose businesses are
being LOOTED, whose merchandizes are being PLUNDERED, whose buildings are being
TORCHED, whose women are being RAPED, and whose children are being BRUTALLY
SLAUGHTERED. They are the ones made homeless by the Pribumis savagery
attacks, they are made even poorer for having their small business
totally destroyed by the rioters. The shops that were destroyed
were mostly mom-and-pop type of small business. With their shops
burnt to the ground, those already poor Chinese gotten even POORER.
They lost not only their businesses, they lost their home, and they
lost many of their family members who were killed by the Indonesian
How many of the news reports you have read regarding the Indonesian riots
mentioned all these facts?
What is the percentage of those news reports even talked about the
Chinese who were BRUTALLY BUTCHERED by the rioters? Think back for a minute, of
the many of the news reports you have read about Indonesia, can you think of one
which mentioned the number of Chinese killed in by the Malay rioters?
How many of those news reports focused on the plight of the Indonesian ethnic
Did the News Media ever tell us how many Chinese were hurt? Did they tell us how
many Chinese women were RAPED? Did they tell us how many Chinese were
SLAUGHTERED? Did they described to us what type of HORRIBLE DEATHS the Chinese
had suffered by the hands of the BRUTAL HANDS of the Malay rioters?
Do you know the story of the innocent THREE-YEAR-OLD Chinese GIRL who
was BRUTALLY BUTCHERED by the Indonesian Malay rioters when they broke into her
parents house, in Tanjong Pinang, of Indonesia? The rioters first broke into her
parents' house. They KILLED her grandmother. Then the rioters RAPED and
BUTCHERED her mother. Finally they MURDERED this INNOCENT 3 year-old Chinese
GIRL, by smashed open her skull, with a metal pipe.
Has CNN reported this news?
Has BBC covered this event?
Has AP, UPI, or Reuters distributed this story?
Wonder why none of the Wold Press is interested in reporting the horrible death
of an INNOCENT 3-year-old GIRL?
Was it because the little girl is from the Indonesia ethnic Chinese minority
Was it because her family is definitely NOT rich, which may jeopardized the
Indonesian Chinese = FILTHY-RICH" image painted by so many journalists reporting
from Indonesia, for the World Media?
Was it because she was a innocently sweet little girl, unlike the
"Indonesian Chinese = COLD-HEARTED, EVIL BUSNESSMEN" image so many journalists would have us believed?
Was it because her INNOCENCE may proved to us thatIndonesian Chinese are flesh-
and-blood human beings, much like the rest of the humanities,which again, may
smash the "Indonesian Chinese = NON-HUMAN" image many members of the World Press
would like to plant deep into our minds?
What motivated the International Press members to engagein such a world-wide
scale of DIS-INFORMATION campaign?
Why are so many journalists trying to make the Indonesian ethnic Chinese
minority into a "FILTHY-RICH," "COLD-HEARTED," and "EVIL" people, and In the
meantime they try to portray the Indonesian Pribumi (Malay) rioters, who would
NOT even spare the life of an INNOCENT 3-year-old LITTLE GIRL, as "MILD-
The Indonesian Chinese are the VICTIMS, the Indonesian Pribumis are the
But yet, every time a news story of Chinese houses being burned, the same news
story also told us how WEALTHY those Chinese are. Did you ever read a news
report which scrutinized the wealth of the victims who just had their house
burned to the ground?
Every time there is a mention about Chinese business being looted, there is also
a mention of how much ECONOMIC POWER those Chinese have.
How many time have you ever read a news report which linked the economic status
of a mug victim, to the crime (of mugging) itself?
Just how credible are the news reports from Indonesia? How ludicrous the
journalists want to be?
How much DIS-INFORMATION they are allowed to pump out before they
are called to task to answer for all the GARBAGES they have
Are the Indonesian ethnic Chinese minorities strong allies of Suharto?
The Indonesian ethnic Chinese minorities had been victimized underthe Suharto-
led Pribumi government..
Although they are ethnic Chinese, they are NOT allowed to have a Chinese name.
The Suharto-led Pribumi regime dictated that NO Chinese in Indonesia can have
Chinese name. ALL Chinese in Indonesia MUST have Indonesian name, or they will
not be granted an Indonesian citizenship. This law only applies to the ethnic
Chinese. A person with Italian ancestry applying for an Indonesian citizenship
is allowed to keep his Italian name. A person born in Indonesia by a Mexican
parentage is allowed to carry a Mexican name on his Indonesian citizenship form.
A Russian is allowed to keep his Russian name as well. ONLY the Chinese are
prohibited from having a Chinese name. The law specifically discriminates
against the ethnic Chinese. Indonesian Chinese are NOT allowed to learn the
In Indonesia, a couple of from Nigeria can teach their children the
Nigerian language. Anyone interested in learning French can enrolled
into French courses offered in several Indonesian colleges and universities.
But if a Chinese is caught learning the Chinese language in Indonesia, [s]he may
be thrown into jail for breaking the anti-Chinese law.
A person caught TEACHING Chinese language in Indonesia may face the DEATH
penalty if he is charged under the "subversive" act. In Indonesia, ONLY the
Chinese-language is forbidden. Indonesian Chinese are not allowed to celebrate
the Chinese New Year. In Indonesia, Muslim's holy days such as Ramadan are
celebrated. In Indonesia, Christian's holy days like Christmas and
Easter are celebrated. But in Indonesia, the Indonesian Chinese are prohibited from celebrating their Chinese New Year. In Indonesia, the Chinese are not allowed to work for the government. Persons from Brazilian or German heritage are not barred from working in the Indonesian government. But a ethnic Chinese who was born in Indonesia is not allowed to work in ANY Indonesian government department. In Indonesia, the Chinese are discriminated. The ethnic Chinese are not permitted to have permanent land title. The same restriction does NOT apply to Caucasian from the United States, however. The ethnic Chinese are prohibited from obtaining governmental scholarships. No such restriction for people of ANY OTHER ethnic background. The Indonesian ethnic Chinese minority is the ONLY group of people in Indonesia who are officially PERSECUTED by the Suharto-led regime.
A coup led by Suharto, back in the 1960's, resulted in a total defeat
of PKI (Parti Komunis Indonesia, or the Indonesian Communist Party). Suharto and
his army cracked down on members of the PKI, and more than 2 MILLION people
died during the purging process. Among the dead were more than 300,000 (some
estimates ran up to more than 500,000) INNOCENT ethnic Chinese who had nothing
to do with neither Suharto, nor PKI, were MURDERED.
How possible do you think a group of victims will strongly supported the person
[or regime] who stripped them the right to practice their own culture?
Mild-mannered people don't loot, plunder, rape or kill people, no matter how
economically-challenged they are.
The Indonesian Pribumis who looted, plundered, raped andkilled the
Chinese are definitely NOT mild-mannered.
The Indonesia Malay attacked the Chinese not for the money, the
attacked the Chinese because they [Pribumis] are RACISTS.
The attacks are blatantly RACIALLY-MOTIVATED attacks.
Why is the World Press keep avoiding to report the TRUTH?
Why are the journalists trying so hard to hide all those RACIST ATTACKS under
the economic banner?
What objective[s] the World Media like to achieve by misguiding us, their
What are the possible reason[s] beneath this massive DIS-INFORMATION
We want the world to witness the TRUE PLIGHT of the Indonesian Chinese.
We want to spread this TRUTH to the world. Please help us.
We do not ask for money, we don't ask for pity. What we ask, and hope you will
do, is to HELP us. Help us by distributing this message, to everyone you know.
We need to spread the TRUTH to as many people as we possibly can, we
need to tell the world that the Indonesian Huaren are not the evil
people the mass media would like you to believe.
We also need your help to contact people in political offices. We
urgently need outside pressures stop the save the lives
of innocent ethnic Chinese in Indonesia. With only less than 4% of
the total population, the ethnic Chinese in Indonesia can't
possibly withstand the unrelenting onslaughts by the Indonesian Malay.
In Rwanda, the Hutus massacred 500,000 Tutsis. In Indonesia, if the world do
not step in, over 7 MILLION people may be butchered.
This is the time we need as much outside pressure as we possibly can
gather. We need the world's response to STOP the Indonesian Malays from
committing even more heinous murders.
Please call or fax this message to your local council persons, the mayor of your
city, your state's representative, national representative,parliamentarians or
congressmen/women, ask them to voice their support PUBLICLY for the Indonesian
Chinese, and ask them to put pressure on the Indonesian government in
preventing more bloodshed from occurring.
Our heartfelt thanks to each and everyone of you for your help.
We have a web site you can visit, our web site is at
From: "Eknath Belbase" <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Subject: BASIC ECONOMICS
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 18:23:19 -0400
>P Bhagat writes
>"Free trade is a good idea also between a rich and a poor country. That is
This is an extremely glib statement. Citing 2-3 books which may support your
doesn't discount the dozens out there which have showed the myriad of
of "free trade". The first problem is that there are dozens of varieties of
free trade - trade in labor, capital, trade in particular types of products.
Rarely does free trade mean complete and total free movement of capital,
and all products. Free trade agreements are negotiated over many months and
quite possible that larger countries, or larger companies, or more powerful
interests will come to dominate the terms of such an agreement so that they
are in their favor. So it might be a very good idea for *them* but could
be a bad idea for 80% of the population. Your statement that it is "basic
is an outright lie. It is an ongoing debate within the economics (and
broader) academic literature.
(Even if it were settled within the field of economics, that wouldn't be the end, because economists have no monopoly on measuring "greatest good", just on measures like GDP growth and unemployment figures).
Even if you were going to use purely quantitative measures for what will be
greatest good you should atleast look at: per capita GDP, unemployment rate,
standard deviation/distribution of GDP per person, percent of population
poverty line, etc. There are plenty of cases where some measures have
"improved" while others have worsened (in fact most cases are like this).
...you also ask R Sitaula to "educate himself".
He seemed extremely educated and had a good general grasp of the issues
Given that there *is* no consensus in the literature, I don't think reading
any number of books is going to make him agree with you. Finally, another
there is (and should not be) any consensus is that the data are also mixed.
The process of economic liberalization/free trade has occurred in different
in different places and is still occurring - another reason the verdict is
Lest you question my "education" as well - I've read about 15 books on the
question of liberalization/free trade and happen to be working as an
finance professional. I'd be happy to give you a *broad* list some time
when I have the time to look them up - they range from the wholeheartedly
enthusiastic to the outright protectionist. To prevent any
misrepresentation- (A)I am in favor of more free trade than less with some
qualifications (B)I think the form it is taking in *Europe* is "good for
most" for a variety of reasons which may or may
not apply to South Asia.
Finally, the economic union idea with India - I don't really see how it
change anything. In my opinion India and Nepal have more economic union now
than any set of countries approaching a free trade agreement will have
anywhere in the world. We have a currency peg to the Indian Rupee, our
inflation rate has over a
95% correlation with almost no lag with India's, and 80% of our trade is
All Ocean trade goes through an Indian port. How could it get worse?
A *SOUTH ASIAN* economic union could be better as we would diversify our
to 4 countries rather than one - assuming India would let us. (Again, lest
accuse me of generic India-phobia see my argument * at the end of this
and you will see why it is in India's interest to monopolize certain parts
trade). If your true concern was economic improvement for Nepal, why did you
choose 4 of the 30 poorest countries on the face of the earth? We have a
neighbor to the north you did not even mention. Could this omission in fact
demonstrate that your entire "economic" reasoning is actually motivated by
an underlying cultural bias? (Surely in this age of trains and roads galore
you cannot simply give geography as the reason) If we really want some
action, though, we need the ability to auction our hydropower-generated
electricity to the highest bidder rather than having to sell it to India
each time. A one-buyer one-seller market where the one-buyer can also
produce the underlying commodity is NOT that good for the seller(*)! THAT is
basic economics. In fact, if your true underlying motivation was economic,
you should have said WORLD FREE TRADE is desirable for Nepal. That would
mean the ability to sell stuff to someone other than India, which is pretty
much the only country getting enough of our stuff to be worth mentioning!
From: "Eknath Belbase" <email@example.com>
Subject: make sense
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 18:42:06 -0400
in response to HUTCH
(1)I agree that passengers not being forced to wear helmets makes no sense. However your comment about sandals misses the point. 80% of motorcycle deaths are caused by head injuries, whereas very few deaths are caused by a broken leg or a bruised big toe, dear.
2) Cows are treated better in Nepal than people... Make any
sense... I'm sorry... Please explain...
(2)Actually they aren't. They mostly eat leaves that noone wants and are living lawn mowers. They also get whacked a lot with thick sticks and are exploited for their milk. Know many humans fitting that description?
3) Nepal (Kathmanduans), especially those in the tourist business want more
tourists (revenue)... Yet, they have turned the Kathmandu Valley into a
garbage dump ('shithole' a U.S. tourist described it recently). Make any
sense...? I'm sorry, I don't understand...?
Simple - you're talking about very different interest groups. You should
stop using "they" so loosely.
Like I said before USE QUANTIFIERS and BE MORE SPECIFIC. WHICH
kathmanduites? Do you think the
people in the tourist industry are the ones to let in those blue three
wheelers and all the old vehicles spewing
black smoke? Or who polluted the Bagmati?
Your question number 5 is actually the answer to your question number 4,
hope you kept your e-mail.
I agree that number 6 makes no sense and in fact if you've been reading TND
you'd see that a fair number of
us think this should change - either more open borders with ALL or closed
borders with India.
Answer to 7: adrenalin. Anwers to 8 and 9 were in my last e-mail about your
government. I think someone else can deal with the rest. Seriously, you
could answer half your own questions
if you started fragmenting "they" and "nepalis" into specific groups with
specific interests to push,
ie encorporate advanced abstract theoretical concepts like quantifiers and
interest groups into your thinking!
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 98 16:34:15 EST
From: "Paramendra Bhagat" <Paramendra_Bhagat@smtpgtwy.berea.edu>
To: firstname.lastname@example.org, email@example.com, firstname.lastname@example.org
Subject: Antiracist.com and Meow Nepal
This is in reply to Meow Nepal's posting in the August 12th message Response to
Traitors in Ranks. The individual or the group of individuals behind this
facade called Meow Nepal - what is this suppoed to be, the purr of a cat - fit
the description of the "educated" racists I read about on the website
we advocate the TOTAL immersion of UP and Bihar in the Indian
Ocean, partial submersion just won't do it.....we have gotten queries from
Sikhs, other Punjabis, Gujratis and Madwadis who would like to help us erase
UP and Bihar from the map......we will consider joining up with and
accepting help from the Khalistan movement, the Front for the Total
Liberation of Kashmir as well as our Gorkhaland brothers
(It is so obvious that the meows hate UP and Bihar, the two Indian states that
the Teraiwasis share their cultures with. Every except one Prime Ministe of
post-Independence India has been from this part of India. The meows cannot
afford enmity with UP and Bihar. As for the "Gorkhaland brothers," it has been
my opinion that the Pahadwasi supremacists feel closer to the Indians in
"Gorkhaland" - "hamee bir chhaun tara buddhu chhaun, hami buddhu chhaun ra ta bir chhaun" Bhupi Serchan - than to the Nepalis in the Terai.)
Do not doubt our ability to accomplish our task. Already hundreds of our
members are training in the jungles. Small and medium-sized munitions have
already been ordered. We have 5000 volunteers in Pakistan, 1000 in Shri
Lanka and 2500 in Bangladesh who are our colleagues and sisters and brothers
in arms. India WILL be taken and it WILL be demolished like the cur that it
(The meow supremacists are playing with fire. Hallucinations incited by
As you all know 1 gorkhali can dispense with 5 sikhs and 20 ordinary Indian
soldiers. Please help us by breeding.
("hamee bir chhaun tara buddhu chhaun, hami buddhu chhaun ra ta bir chhaun"
what's this about open borders being the "lifestyle" of the Terai.
(The Teraiwasis have linguistic and cultural bonds with the Indians across the
border just like you have with the "Gorkhalandwallas.")
the PC movement hasn't hit us yet
(It has hit you and you don't even realize it has. You are in a panic.)
Sure, newars and gurungs and rais and limbus and everyone else STILL holds a
grudge against us gorkhalis for kicking their ancestors asses, unifying
them and saving them from becoming the slaves of the British like the
ancestors of our traiterous friends who drank some bad water while at our so
called 'national school'. Set up by - the British!
(The SETAMAGURALI will align with the Teraiwasis to get their just share of
state power so far monopolized by the NSHCWAHM, the Nepali Speaking High Caste
Wealthy Agend Hindu Males. Yeah, at the "national school" I came across a
couple Britishers who still bemoaned the demise of the British empire.)
ALL our brethen have heard RATO RA CHANDRA SURYA JANGI NISHANA HAMRO.
Do you even know the words? Of course not. But when the revolution begins,
you will be the first we will deal with.
(You bet there will be mutation on the political landscape - the Teraiwasis and
the Janajatis will come together to give you - NSHCWAHM - your share.)
Ok, so we've had some setbacks in the Terai recently. What do you expect -
you'd want to cross over into Nepal if you lived in UP or Bihar too! All
this trouble stirred up by these border raiders and our corrupt government
selling citizenship papers right and left and what do you know now they say
they're 50% of the population.
(The Teraiwasis who are half the national population all look Indian to you, do
it is imperative to either open BOTH borders or CLOSE BOTH. North and South.
If we don't deal with the terai it will deal with us.
(The Teraiwasis - 50% of the population - and the Janajatis - 30% of the
population - will deal with racists, supremacists like you either way. Why don't
you come to this forum with your real name? Why hide behind a meow? Let's talk
things out. By the way, I suspect I know who you really are.....)
A crucial part of our campaign to make Nepal self-sufficient- first send all
the aid workers home except for volunteers (anyone know about Eritrea?)..
Everyone working/living in the west will be invited to invest money in a
large fund to start profitable businesses in nepal.
(Xenophobia trying to use the vocabulary of Economics. I guess an anti-Terai
sentiment can turn anti-west as well. You are isolating yourself Meow.)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 20:05:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ram Subedi <email@example.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Hindi/Nepali, Madhesi/Pahadi
> (It is not true only of South Asia that the house has to be put into order
> before any concrete steps towards an economic union can be taken. The point
> Subedi misses is that "setting the house in order" is itself part of the
* I certainly didn't mean to say that after we set our houses in order
we'll jump right into an economic union. There is a transition phase. What
I am saying is that given the present state of economic conditions in
Nepal/India it does not make sense even to think about the economic
union. There will come a time when it makes sense to talk about such
union if we all work hard to strengthen ourselves. That will be the onset
of a transition period, which is a part of the economic unification
process. Also, "getting our house together" is not one way road. If
we want an economic union with India, India also has to have an interest
in the union. "Ek hatle tali bajdaina." India also has to set its house in
order aiming specifically for the union. I have very little faith that
this would happen. India has its own share of problems, many of which are
no less serious than ours. "Goa is like Europe in Christmas time." Bihar
is like Bihar anytime, all the time. The stability of a single currency
becomes questionable when severe economic disparities exist among the
units in the union for reasons I have repeated many a time.
> We want prosperity right? Why not work for it ourselves without losing our
> power to the uncertainty that is India?
> (An economic union is the quicker way to prosperity that ethnic, casteist elites
> like Subedi refuse to see for fear that any step in that direction might open up
> the country further and loosen the grip on power that their group has.)
* I am ashamed at myself for not being able to see your idea of economic
union that would be a "quicker way to prosperity," given where Nepal and
India stand economically and socio-politically. If I have any fear about
losing power, both economic and political, it is because I do not want my
country to be a puppet of India. If my arguments so far appear to be
elitist, ethnic, casteist, and power hungry, it's because of your
closed-mindedness, your ignorance, and your lack of basic economic sense.
> (As to either there will be inflation or unemployment in the economy dictum,
> Subedi needs to look at the US economy that has defied that premise. This is
> besides the point anyway.
* "Arule ghoda chadhyo bhandaima gharko dhuri chadhnu hudaina." Comparing
apples and oranges won't help your argument.
> Subedi uses India's current policy framework vis-a-
> taking over of Nepal by India, Sikkim-style which has never been my premise
* I am very sorry for a careless error that I've made in my earlier
posting. Nukes argument was against the idea of Nepal as another state in
India, and disparity in fiscal strngth and stability was against the idea
of a sustainable economic union given present conditions. If you had been
following the economics behind my argument, you'd have been able to
pinpoint that inconsistancy in my line of reasoning. The nukes did not
appear for the first time in my argument.
* If you still have doubts, there's no Santa Claus who comes down the
chimney to give you presents. If we cannot help ourselves nobody else can
>(Whether it be rooted in ignorance or whatever, racism is what it is : racism.
> And I am always amused when the "educated" folks like Subedi attribute racism to
>illiteracy. Infact the racism that emanates from the educated, the PhD wallas,
* Illiteracy can always be cured by education, ignorance cannot. One can
be totally ignorant even though s/he has piled up diplomas on his/her
desk. Ignorance can be cured by awareness, when people see through their
differences and respect each other. Racism is not a result of illiterary,
it is a result of ignorance (lack of awareness).
> (What does making a language "official" mean to you?)
* Nepali is an official language. Hope it answers your querry.
> (Hindi is spoken by very few Teraiwasis as their first language. But it
> definitely is the link language for all Terai groups who are half the national
* I think you got the stats wrong. The one half of the national population
that lives in Terai does not use Hindi as its lingua franca. Distortion of
statistics can only bring you contempt just the way Raut pointed out for
the case of Panchayati and Rana regimes.
Department of Physics
MC 3638 Middlebury College
Middlebury, VT 05753.
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 98 15:07:35 EST
From: "Paramendra Bhagat" <Paramendra_Bhagat@smtpgtwy.berea.edu>
Subject: Racism : From the Nepalese to the Global Context(I)
Racism : From the Nepalese to the Global Context(I)
compiled and edited by Paramendra Bhagat
I have gone on the web searching for contemporary work on racism and have
prepared a haphazard account primarily for the recent discussions on Racism in
Nepal on The Nepal Digest forum. There are obvious parallels between racism as
a phenomenon in the Nepalese and the western contexts. There is a lot that
white supremacists share with the supremacist cultural elite in Nepal. Besides,
the Racism in Nepal has not managed to attract the attention of the native
Extensive use of material from the following sites has been made. I would urge
the interested readers to visit the texts on those sites in full so as to get a
fuller picture and come back to the TND Forum to make informed contributions to
The antiracist.com was a most helpful site. It provides a Canadian setting,
which is not necessarily a disadvantage.
-hate crimes statistics - racial bias, religious bias, ethnicity bias,
gender bias and sexual orientation bias. Some laws include persons with
disabilities, political affiliation, and age.
-hate-motivated violence, because they are often attempts to silence and instill fear into entire groups, will not be tolerated.
-the victim's race, color, religion, ancestry or national origin.
-The most notorious violent racist and anti-Jewish organizations in the country also share a hatred for gays, lesbians, bisexuals, and transgendered people which is often expressed through violent means.
-In this society, older persons and those with disabilities are not considered equal, deserving, contributing members.
-A study in Australia showed that people with developmental disabilities are more apt to be victims of every crime except car theft. Much of this has to do with the contempt society holds for disabled people. A convicted criminal's assessment of the situation was that "This person's life was so miserable, I couldn't make it any worse anyway."
-hatred is often the primary cause, and vulnerability only provides an opportunity for offenders to express their hatred. No one should have to fear for their lives, whether they are black, white, Catholic, Jewish, gay, disabled, older, or anything else. REPORT immediately any hate crimes you witness or experience, either to the police or to an anti-violence project or both ENCOURAGE AND SUPPORT legislation to combat hate crimes WORK against the twin evils of violence and hate in our society.
-A national survey of 151 gay and lesbian related homicides from 1992 to 1994 showed that over half of these involved extraordinary and horrific violence, including dismemberments, multiple stabbings and gross beatings.
-Hate crimes, especially those against gays, lesbians, bisexuals, and transgendered people, are traditionally underreported. Reasons for this include fear of exposure or worries about homophobia within the police department.
-"The most frequent victims of hate violence today are blacks, Hispanics, Southeast Asians, Jews, and gays and lesbians. Homosexuals are probably the most frequent victims."
-Anti-gay violence is alarmingly widespread, and is often more vicious than other bias-motivated crime. A failure to address this critical problem sends a dangerous message to law enforcement and the public that anti-gay violence does not exist, or worse, is somehow less reprehensible than violence against other minorities.
-Hate crimes have a greater impact on victims than other types of crimes.
-victims of bias crimes suffer two to three times more symptoms of trauma than victims of comparable crimes that do not involve prejudice.
-Hate speech that is not accompanied by criminal activity is not punishable.
-ceating a national anti-racism information and action network, a more
effective network for tracking and monitoring hate groups and support for the
victims of racism, employment equity, representation of visible minorities
throughout the occupational structure, amendments to the criminal code and human
rights legislation, and the need for a consultation process between community
organizations fighting racism and government agencies responsible for hate
It is impossible to prioritize this list of recomendations since each is
necessary to support the others.
-support organizations actively fighting racism, creating more effective legislation with common standards across Canada, developing anti-racist and human rights educational materials for all levels of schooling and for the general public, and employment equity.
-Canada needs stronger legislation and the political will to use it. In addition, there must be support available across the country to the victims of racism. However, it was ............equal and effective legislation is not the sole answer to racism. We need strong community organizations united to fight racism as well as anti-racism education throughout the school curriculum. We need commitment in the justice system to employment equity, cross-cultural and anti-racism training to fight racism, and the development of a social movement which addresses racism in terms of a "social disease" so that all Canadians can participate in the economic and social development of the country.
-organized racist activity is increasing in Canada as it is in Western Europe and the United States.
-Wolfgang Droege, former British Columbia Ku Klux Klan leader and present head of the largest and most influential racist group in Canada, the Heritage Front
-The unanticipated increase in racism and the growth of the right organizations should raise serious concern.
-the need for coalition building and mobilizing the community and government
to fight the organized right.
-hate group activity in Canada and the United States.
-human rights protections
-criminal code protections against hate activity
-bias crime legislation
-strategies against hate
Myth #1: The Far Right Are Just Kooks and Loonies
One of the most dangerous myths is that members of the far right are simply
uneducated and are just a collection of "kooks, loonies and idiots".
-membership in far right groups is not correlated with low levels of formal education.
-62% of the members of the far right he interviewed had attended university, college or technical school training. ..........a number of leaders of the far right in Canada teach in high schools and Universities, influencing new generations of Canadians.
-disputes the notion that the far right is simply uneducated.
-detailed educational information on 383 individuals in the Christian Patriot Movement in Idaho and found that they had attained generally higher levels of education than the average resident of Idaho - a state where the average educational level is higher than in other American states.
-the far right recruits from every occupational level and members are often articulate and educated
-there are hate groups specifically designed to recruit from a variety of occupational and educational levels
-the White Aryan Resistance Movement primarily is designed to draw blue collar workers and the CAUSE Foundation is for lawyers. The educational levels attained by leaders and followers in the far right require a wholesale re- evaluation of anti-racism theory and practice. How effective will existing educational programs to combat the growth of the racist right be if in fact members and recruits are not poorly educated? Clearly, the efficacy of cross cultural understanding as a means of eliminating racism must be tempered by the realization that
-committed racists will not be easily dissuaded from their views through education.
Myth # 2: Hate Groups Are Simply Disorganized Gangs
-hate groups are well organized and are more correctly seen as a social
movement with leaders, resources, a coherent political ideology and political
-A social movement implies coordination, ideological indoctrination and long term strategy. It is much more difficult to combat racism when it is culturally based and finds an expression at the political level. There is also a relative homogeneity of belief systems that tie hate groups together in what Kinsella
(1994) calls a web of hate. One such belief is that there are biologically distinct "races" which can be scientifically ordered in a hierarchy of morality, intellectual capacity, culture and civilization. In this view, the "white race" of North Western Europe is morally and intellectually superior and is primarily responsible for human civilisation and science. All other "races", i.e., Asian, African, American, et cetera, are inferior, and it is the biological and moral destiny of the white races to bring civilisation to the world. The ideology of white supremacy thus draws from the same well of hate as traditional Nazi ideology which was based on the bankrupt notion of "race" as found in the eugenics, or the so-called "race science", movement of the nineteenth century. The ideology of "race" is a central part of much of the British-Israel or Identity "church" movement, where it receives pseudo-theological justification for its violent racist theory. The Identity movement is based on the belief that Northern Europeans, and not Jews, are the chosen people of the Judaeo-Christian Bible. It is believed that the so-called lost tribes of Israel were the forerunners to the nations of Europe and that Jews are not Israelites, but the children of Satan. In this view, non-Europeans are "mud" people and along with Jews sprang from a biologically distinct source of creation. Identity followers also believe that the second coming of Jesus Christ is at hand which will be preceded by a racial holy war and, of course, only Identity members who are prepared will survive - thus the emphasis on survivalism.
-There are many offshoots of the Identity movement which also believe in a racial theory of creation and a racial holy war. Aryan Nations is important because it has served as an umbrella group uniting various Klan and neo-Nazi organizations and attracting racist skinheads.
-At one Aryan Nations World Congress, keynote speaker, Louis Beam stated that: The old period is over and new one is going to begin... I'm here to tell you that if we [Aryans] can't have this country, as far as I'm concerned, no one gets it.
-In the mid-eighties, Aryan Nations also advertised a computer service in B.C., stating that: Effective immediately, all the publications, newspapers, journals, and magazines that have been banned by the postal system and customs service will once again be available IN CANADA, through the Aryan Nations Computer Liberty Net. Aryan Nations Leadership training camps were routinely attended by Canadians of all ages, but were particularly popular with young people from Alberta and British Columbia.
-Like Aryan Nations in the United States, Canadian chapters devote considerable resources to recruiting in prisons.
-Aryan Nations believe that Canadian prisons are fertile ground for messages of racism, anti-Semitism and hatred towards women.
-there is a "web of hate" is larely supported.
Myth # 3: Hate Groups Do Not Create Racism
-It is often claimed that hate groups do not create racism, but are simply a
reflection of a racist culture. While it is true that hate groups would not be
tolerated if it were not for culturally based racism, the explicit reason that
hate groups exist is to create divisions between groups, foster intolerance and
to give a semblance of reason to ideologies of racism, xenophobia and
-Hate groups are explicit about fostering racism, bigotry, prejudice and violence as a means of orchestrating a "racial war".
-Church Of The Creator newsletter "Racial Loyalty" states that: "What is good for the White Race is the highest value; what is bad for the White Race is the ultimate sin." The subtitle of the COTC newsletter is "Spearhead of the White Racial Holy War".
Myth #4: It's Best To Ignore Racists
It is often assumed that since racists seek attention, ignoring them will result
in frustration and their eventual demise as a movement.
-exposure, not concealment, is the best strategy to combat hate.
-ignoring the problem gives hate groups tacit license to practise hate.
-to ignore hate group activity is interpreted by those on the far right as a sign that the wider society is not concerned with the immediate victims of hate. This adds to the sense of alienation and frustration some feel with established authorities and institutional mechanisms of response. Community based groups and government agencies have a responsibility to not cover up racism, but to expose it to the light of reason.
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